I know her “husband” will have her cremated. But what will happen to us as a culture? Will there be a backlash?
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the two sleepy mommies
I know her “husband” will have her cremated. But what will happen to us as a culture? Will there be a backlash?
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My husband and I have discussed this. He worries about extreme laws being put in place to try to avoid this in the future … laws that will hurt more than they will help. I have to say, I wonder the same thing…
In response to Julie D. – what kind of extreme laws do you have in mind? My fear is the exact opposite – that this will simply set a precedent and more and more supposedly “worthless” lives will be snuffed out until we end up being like Nazi Germany all over again. I know it has become a cheap shot in American politics to compare one’s opponents to Nazis, but I really think that is the best analogy to what is happening now.
I dont know about you guys, but if I was in her place? Put me out of my misery, plant me in the country, toast me on holidays and think of me fondly when the stars come out on cool summer nights.
I’m sorry,I know I’m going a little bit against the popular Catholic blogging grain right now,but thats no way to live, and I wouldnt want to put my family and friends thru the hell all the people involved in this have gone thru.
I know people say she is concious and that they think she tried to say “I want to live” the other day, but the stock footage of her interacting with people is four years old, and without new film footage, how do any of us *really* know the truth? Were acting on the testamony of people who say she does this, that and the other thing, but have we seen it? If so, then where is the video footage? Where is the proof? I’m sorry, I’ve supported her right to live since I heard about her, and I still do -IF she is concious- but I need something more solid than just words.
If Terri dies, it will be because of the evil of this country. Arm yourselves and fight against this evil or you yourselves lay down and die, for you are next be violated. Police, armed services, you owe your duty to the will of the people of this country, NOT the judges and lawyers. Your oath is to uphold the constitution which upholds life. Do not abhor the will of the people or you yourselves will be destroyed by the people.
We must kill the bad people so good people can live.
Steve, it’s not just the “popular Catholic blogging grain” you’re going against. See http://www.ncbcenter.org/press/04-04-23-NCBCStatementonNutritionandHydration.html
“Removal of food and water is permissible in the case of a patient in the vegetative state only when their provision can no longer attain nourishment….
The words of the Holy Father should settle three related debates among Catholic moralists:
1. When dealing with pvs patients, some had contended that the presumption should be not to provide nutrition and hydration artificially [ANH] whereas others insisted that the presumption must be to provide artificial nutrition and hydration, even when delivered artificially. The pope clearly decides in favor of the latter. ”
If you highlight the line w/the link on it in my comment above, the rest should be visible over the purple background.
It’s up to us. We can become better or we can become worse. Let’s become better.
Ro,
I understand what you are saying, but I guess my underlying point is, how much good is coming out of this? What have we learned? Well, we’ve learned that people who think of themselves as Christians can put hits out on people, try to rob a gun store with a box cutter to liberate a woman who is in a vegetative state, and that they’ll use their children as cannon fodder for the police just to get some air time for their cause.
We also learned that alot of these people dont really care about Terri Schiavo or her family, as they ignored the families pleas to cease and desist their antics so the family could at least have a little peace and dignity in what seems to be her final hours.
I have a great deal of compassion for Terri and her family, and I have prayed for I dont know how long for a different outcome to this whole cruddy mess, and I believe and follow what the Pope says,but there comes a point where you just have to face the facts, that despite our best attepmts (I have called and written Governor Bush myself a few times & tried to persuade him as a fellow Knight to help her) the inevitable outcome of this particular scenario has reached its zenith, and it’s time to pray in a different way, for different things, and perhaps the reason this whole thing happened was so others who would otherwise be ignorant of thistype of thing would become aware of this problem. Maybe the entire purpose that she was put into this situation was to make the rest of us aware, maybe her entire mission WAS to die, so we could all become better people?I mean honestly, Isn’t it kind of ironic that all this is happeneing at Easter?
Sue Wrote: “We must kill the bad people so good people can live. ”
What kind of a thing is that to say? You’re a very misguided individual to write such a thing, especially at Easter.
The thing is that, as my dad puts it, we’re in the middle of a spiritual civil war. This whole case with Terri Schiavo is sort of a Dred Scott case. I like Poeny’s quote at the bottom of the page since it speaks volumes in only one line. I think that Terri is just someone that got caught in the cross-fire of something greater than most people would care to realize. What that “something greater” is is the fact that we as a culture have officially reached a point where life is no longer considered a right, but a priviledge. Roe V Wade was the first step since it is easier to make abortion appear morally ambiguous. Once our culture was ok with that, we took the next step, extending abortion in a way to those of us outside of the womb. We’re at a moment in history where genocide is an accepted practice. But what should worry us as Catholics in particular is how this attack on Terri was almost targetted on Catholics in general. Terri is being refused to even receive Communion. Now I don’t know about you, but that makes my hair stand on ends.
NicPais83 (and everyone else),
I totally agree with what your Dad is saying about spiritual warfare, but my point is, things are very one sided in this issue, and people are (seemingly) acting upon heresay and supposition instead of cold hard facts. I really and truly think that if Terri’s parents would have or could have released current film footage of her interacting, and doing the things THEY SAY she does, they would do nothing but generate more sympathy and support for their cause. But for whatever reason, there are no film clips being shown of her that arent more recent than two years older or more, and that puts me in a very thoughtful frame of mind is all.
People can go down hill at the speed of light, my own Grandmother being such a case, and if she really is bad off, shouldnt she be allowed to pass on, instead of being kept alive in some miserable state because her parents cant let go?
I said it before, I’ll say it again, show me recent footage of her interacting with her parents and nurses and I’ll be the loudest protester of all, but at this point I just cant.
Ro,
First and foremost, I respect and follow the words of the Holy Father. I want you to know that, and I try my best to live by the edicts of the catechism. But how many of us know (or are) Catholics who think the U.S. is justified in defending ourselves through the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?? I know scores of Catholics who support the war, yet say Terri Schiavo should be saved.So what is it? Do you follow what the Pope says, or do we just pick and choose to suit our own tastes?
I suppose my problem with the whole thing is this; she’s suffering, her family is suffering, her husband is suffering,everyone involved in this whole Sh*&%y mess is suffering, except for the crowd outside who have adopted her as the poster girl for Right to Life, and thats not right.
I heard earlier that a woman missed saying goodbye to her own Grandmother(who was in the same hospice) by one minute because of the protesters and the security involved. They refuse to leave, even after the family asked them to go home, and now they’re causing other people pain. They dont care about Terri or her family, all they see is a way to get their message out, and they’re exploiting that as best they can.
The reason why there isn’t any additional video footage of Terri is because it is not allowed. In fact, the Schindlers were not supposed to have recorded Terri at all, and that was according to Mr. Felos, Mr. Schiavo’s attorney. Seeing video of her interacting at all would not make any difference to me anyway. It is apparent that she is alive and was not suffering from multiple organ failure or brain death at the time that the feeding tube was removed. Those conditions, if present, would have made withdrawal of life support systems even licit if it was determined that these were extraordinary means. Even if I were to separate my faith from this issue, the fact remains that Terri is alive and not in danger of death. Yes, she could not feed herself, but her life, even to the extent that she can live it, has dignity.
Steve,
Let’s say for a moment that Terri is in a vegetative state. If that is the case, then why is she on morphine? If you’re in a vegetative state, then you shouldn’t need morphine to keep you comfortable, you simply wouldn’t feel anything. Honestly, even if the Schindlers are lying, does it really hurt anyone at all to preserve this woman’s life? But the case isn’t about “he said, she said” like the media wants to make it out to be. The real case at hand is the fact that the courts refuse to even investigate the slightest possibility that the Schindlers are right in what they say about Terri’s state. And that’s where the argument falls apart. If she is in a vegetative state, then that’s one thing. But the courts don’t want to know if she is or is not and it turns from a DNR case into the possibility of murder. And as Catholics, if there is even the slightest possibility of murder, then all steps must be made to avoid this action since we are called to always choose in favor of life.
I have NEVER heard that she was on morphine. Not on reports from MSNBC,FoxNews, NBC,CBS,ABC, not even EWTN. Please furnish us all with the links to news articles that state she is on morphine -not some yay-hoos weblog full of suppostitions, but a reliable source- and I’ll believe you.
You know the sad thing is, if she had just had a will, this wouldnt be happening right now, and we could all be spending our time helping Tsunami orphans or what have you.
Steve,
I suggest that you read:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/28/schiavo/
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/29/94845.shtml
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=89709
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_033005/content/fruited_plain_3.guest.html
http://www.mtulode.com/viewarticle.php?ArticleID=4325
I could continue, but really all you need to do is just open up a news paper, since the first time that I heard about her on morphine was on Fox News.
NicPais83,
I stand corrected, and I apologize to you, though I dont think you needed to be so cross about it! Sorry to offend! BTW, I watch the NBC nightly news almost every night, but with a one year old and a three year old screaming and running around the house as they chase each other, sometimes you miss stuff.
That indeed is suspicious. I wonder why it wasn’t questioned more? I suppose its a moot point now though.
Steve,
I’m sorry that you thought that I was being cross. It’s hard to convey emotions via the internet. I’ll do better next time to make sure that the way that I say things doesn’t give the wrong impression. Once again, I appologize for coming off even the slightest bit negative.
🙂
It’s all good! Were all on the same side here! I was just getting weary of the side show that seemed to have spawned in the midst of legitimate peaceful protesters, and I really just wanted to see her at peace, you know? the whole thing was so very ugly,it got very frustrating towards the end for me.
NicPais,
Not that I’m tryin to stir stuff up, but I asked my wife (A CCU Nurse for the past 11 years) and my Father in law (a Pharmacist for rest homes and hospice centers for the past 30 years) about the morphine thing, and surprisingliy, I found out that morphine is used to control breathing in people in vegetative states.
I thought it was only used to control pain (I had it in the hospital 10 years ago, and it does a gooooood job at controlling pain!), but from what they are telling me, it has a few other uses as well.