I am finally here…It is nothing like you think it is…The drill instructors are inhuman, and you’re like always on the move…It is real tough here because you wake up at three in the morning by Drill instructors yelling in your face and forcing you to yell at then top of your lungs and do drills. Don’t worry though, I will make it.
They don’t like people being nice here at all, if you are nice, then you get punished.
I am so exhausted and hungry. I had no lunch today because I didn’t say “Good Morning” to the Drill Instructor. I didn’t finish my dinner because the Drill Instructor said I didn’t put my feet at a 45 degree angle, but I will make it as a MARINE!”
Sigh…
I can’t picture him without his Taco Bell.
So what we see in the movies isn’t so far-removed from real-life…
That just disgusts me… sorry, but I would NEVER make it as a marine, I would just be too insulted and leave.
I would be in tears the whole time.
He says that it’s worse than what they show in the movies.
I don’t mean to be rude, but from what they tell you, if you’re there in boot camp and you are disgusted, then you’re pretty much stuck in boot camp being disgusted. It comes out pretty quickly who is motivated and who isn’t, but you do not have the choice to leave if you want to leave. As for the training and how harsh it is, there is a reason for all of this. I understand that it’s hard and seems rather barbaric, but I also trust that they know what they’re doing in training these boys. It wasn’t about Thomas having his feet at a 45 degree angle (imagine the drill sergeant carrying a protractor), and it wasn’t about the “good morning”. The thing is that at the moment they’re gonna find a fault in everything, until Thomas learns that it isn’t about him, but the group, the team. I think that there is a level of Christianity in this that maybe obscure, but there.
…Yeah, that sounds about “par for the course”; amazing that things havent changed in twenty years.
“…if you’re there in boot camp and you are disgusted, then you’re pretty much stuck in boot camp being disgusted.”
Correction then, 🙂 I would never make it as a marine, because I would never make it to boot camp in the first place.
Me neither Jeanne. It takes a certain kind of personality to be able to handle that.
I’m having a hard time finding anything christian in the military (not US, but general). Being a soldier is really only noble if you are defending. the military’s objective though is to desensitize you and therefore make you more conforming and detached, so you can perform the required job better. i suppose it has its purpose to be detached as war is bloody and cruel and being more conforming makes the army function better. But really, are those motives christian? I don’t know. I somehow can’t picture jesus having dehumanizing drill seargants in mind when he encourages the soldier to do his job.
Aaaaanyway. This is just the earth and not heaven, so I might not have a point here at all.
What I meant by that was that the idea is not dehumanizing the enemy, but to break down personal identity. They’re trying to get you to look after your unit as you would yourself.
Ummm, wouldn’t there be a more christian way to get people to look after their unit than screaming and yelling at them and taking away lunch for not saying good morning, etc,…? I mean I have been on A LOT of sports teams and the closest teams/groups have always been the ones who supported each other, not the ones who insulted each other…
I tend to agree with Dinka about the whole point being to desensitize and conform… You have to be a REALLY strong person to stick to who you are in a place like that. I don’t like to pick on the US marines, but I have to say that I can see why they might have problems with soldiers like at that jail in Iraq where they provoked the prisoners. Only a desensitized, conforming person could do that…
I don’t know what bootcamp is like in other countries besides the US, because noone bothers to make movies or talk about it, but I get the impression that it isn’t nearly as bad in Canada. Also, I don’t know if that is tipical of the marines only or of all corps in the US Army?
A young friend of mine started out a couple of years ago in the Canadian army and she said she really liked it. She didn’t mention any treatment like what Pansy’s brother goes through. The worst I’ve heard of is one lady (another friend) being mistaken for a recruit (when she was actually the wife of an officer just going on an errand) and being yelled at to get back in line, (she put the officer in HIS place… ha ha), so I guess they do get yelled at, but nothing like in the marines. Basically my young (recruit) friend talked mostly about news briefings they received every morning and how she enjoyed being on top of news like that, and also all the training (physical stuff, running, sports etc,) she was doing.
The point of boot camp is to dehumanize soldiers and force them to loose their sense of individuality. It trains you to not feel remorse right after you kill, you only care about yourself and the corp.
Well, I have to say I was not so sure about the “obscurely Christian” aspect myself except when it comes down to mortification and humility. But I couldn’t quite grasp it. I asked my husband what he thought. I said “Ed said he thinks boot camp is somewhat Christian in nature” and man, did I get an immediate ear full. My husband rarely has an ear full on things that are not Star Wars or Dragonball Z, so I figured I will weigh in his opinion:
“When Jesus was praying in the garden, He asked the disciples to stay awake and they did not because they lacked discipline, even in when their friend truly needed them. When Jesus fasted for 40 days, it took great discipline for him to do so and then to resist temptation. When Jesus walked on water and Peter was unable to follow Jesus and started to sink, it was because his faith was not tempered with discipline.
Boot camp seems very extreme to Americans because we come from a society that is undisciplined and lacks the kind of self-denial Christ was capable of. Kids these days have no respect for authority because they lack not only the discipline but the respect for it. Anyway, those are my thoughts and I am not that good with Bible studies.”
So that is my husband’s perspective.
Well there is discipline and there is the systematic attack on human dignity. I suppose I disagree with josh here… I’m all for discipline, but never in my life would I teach my children discipline this way. I will admit though that maybe for some people this is what it takes to break an inflated ego. If you neglect a child up through his adolescent years and into adulthood by never forcing them to obey authority and to learn to be humble then boot camp might be a possible crash course to bring these things into their life for the first time. So yeah, maybe as a therapeutic tool… as a means to create the right kind of soldier… i dunno.
Have to agree with Dinka again…
I am so happy to see Josh’s comments! I was just thinking that your brother wouldn’t be happy with all the, ahem, ‘pansy comments’ in here!!!
There is an awful lot of “mean” in boot camp. DIs don’t have the years that it takes to build discipline with love. So they do it by force. And it saves lives. Lots of lives.
You can’t be a marine if you’re not a certain kind of tough. Mothers are a different kind of tough. Doctors are still another different kind of tough. Marine tough is unique. Even the other services don’t have as tough a boot camp, nor as tough a lifestyle once they’re in “the real Marines”.
Kids who are raised well, who come into boot camp with decent self-discipline, do well. If they can look at it as a game, it helps. Your brother won’t forget to say “good morning” again….but when he does, he’s likely to get chewed out–“What are you doing, talkin’ to me, Recruit?!!!??!” There’s no winning except by being strong. (Hmmm…dealing with DIs is remarkably like dealing with tired toddlers…I wonder how Nutella would work with them??)
Funny thing is that DIs love their troopies. They really do.
The biggest threat to your brother is the other recruits. Peer pressure is strong and he will probably be ribbed for his faith and goodness. He seems like a darn fine kid and I suspect that he’ll weather the pressure just fine…but keep that aspect in your prayers.
I never thought to offer up boot camp sufferings and indignities. Pretty clever idea.
Sandy
I guess the thing is that we need to stop here and take a look at where we’re going with this conversation. Sandy is right in what she says about discipline. The thing that needs to be kept in mind is that most people that enter the armed forces are not thinking that they’re doing it in order to become killers. Like my brother, most people do it because they feel a calling to defend their families and country, which is noble anyway you look at it. Granted that war is a horrible thing, but having armed forces is not in itself necessarily evil. These people who are training my brother are not at fault. My brother is not thinking that he’s going to be a killer. He’s going in thinking that he hopes to be a heroe.
Most fraternities have a similar experience, though tremendously shorter and easier, called “hell week”. The design is to demean the new pledges so that they will bond with each other against a common “enemy”.
The military is the most successful organization in America for a reason – they understand and uses human nature.
FWIW, the intention isn’t to demean, rather to demonstrate in the most undeniable way possible that the “old” things which you thought gave you your place in the world (wealth, intelligence, looks, charm, whatever) don’t cut it. Once that’s done there are “new” things which will give you a place in the world (attention to duty, respect for your leaders and fellow soldiers, competence at your assigned tasks), and these are added to the mix.
The essential message which can (although sometimes isn’t) brought home is that one must die to self in order to live with one’s brothers. That can be a profoundly-Christian experience and it’s no coincidence that military people tend to be devout.