Why Do We Need a Wicca Barbie?

Ack! I saw the commercial a few days ago and shouted the title of this post at my tv!

Words fail me, and you know it takes a wallop to bring THAT about.

I thought it was a joke. I had to click on it, then I had to search around to see if it was real. It is.

I've been chastised by some for my position on Harry Potter and other seemingly harmless books, but they really do open the door to deeper, darker, and more harmful things. I think this vindicates my view.

Why a Wiccan Barbie? Because there are many Wiccan children who love dolls, and most children like dolls who resemble themselves to some degree. This is why we now have dolls with various skin colors. I can't think of a better role model for a Wiccan child than a Priestess doll. Although this Barbie is far more "Hollywood" or "Charmed" than reality. I don't think I've even seen a Wiccan Priestess in gold lame pants before. But then again, Barbie in general is a bit of a stretch from reality to begin with.

I'm sorry that you get headaches because children of other faiths would like their toys and precious posessions to reflect their own deep, spiritual beliefs and culture. But the world is a very multi-cultural place, and the United States moreso than any other place in the world. What a Divine gift that so many people of so many different beliefs can coexist peacefully in this wonderful country.

I only wish that our country had been a bit more peaceful and understanding about our differences when my daughter was a child. How I would have loved to give her a Wiccan Barbie. Alas, she is a grown, married woman now, and a Wiccan Priestess in her own right. But at least I will proudly be able to give my grandchildren a Wiccan doll, and encourage their play to reflect their love of the Divine...even if it is does come with gold lame pants.

Hello, I just posted about this on my site. I'm halfway between The Barrister and Donna on this issue. I'm an Episcopalian, and a former neo-Pagan. I don't view "earth-based" religions as inherently dark or sinful or evil. On the contrary, some practitioners that I have had the pleasure of knowing were very positive, tolerant, stable, and kind people (just like some of the Christians I know!). My primary concern, however, is the commercialization of Wicca in this form, and in Charmed, and in the countless books about how Teen Witches can make Potions and Spells. It's about the same as making a toy Home Baptism kit or something: the outward signs and tools of a faith presented with none of the understanding behind them are dangerous. Good role models are fine, but why only a Wiccan one? Where's the Rabbi Barbie, the Pastor barbie? The Priest Barbie? Good role models are fine, but only if they actually *are* good role models; we need to ask if "edible poisons" are sending the right message. Donna, are the kids getting enough "an ye harm none" before they hear the "do what thou wilt"?

Donna and Chris,
Two things bother me about this Wiccan Barbie. The first is, while I am not familiar with the rue Wiccan faith, I do know there is no such thing as getting something for nothing. You cannot concoct secret potions after school for "love, luck and money" Love is a gift from one person to another and gift from God, money should be earned, and I do not believe in luck but rather faith and grace. A pagan belief system is one thing, but spells to get things that are not earned seems demonic to me.

Second, just as mentioned if there is a Wiccan Barbie, there should also be a Mother Teresa Barbia and a Father Ken, kwim?

This particular Barbie is not directly named as a Wiccan priestess of any sort, instead being called a "Charm girl." If you're looking for role models for a religion, I'm thinking that a schoolgirl mixing up love potions secretly after school is probably not the best role model you could ask for. Christian parents do have some right to be concerned-- no matter if our belief offends. We can only police our own children's toyboxes. I'm as concerned about this doll being in my children's friends toyboxes as I would be about a Ouija board being in use. We, as Catholics, are forbidden from engaging in any occult practices. My children may be unwittingly lured into these practices by a careless friend, and I find that horrifying-- just as a Muslim mother would find it horrifying if she suspected that her children's friends were feeding them pork rinds, or just as horrified as most Pagan parents would be if they found that their children were being taught the "Our Father" at their friend's houses.

Tolerance and respect is all very well, but it is a two-way street.

Hello..I found this on a web search and I truely hope it is not an intrusion I am A Witch, and no not into eating children..well maybe that bad ones ~ JUSSSTT KIDDING~

any way I have four kids of my own and I have to agree while I think things have finaly cooled off some what between our worlds of religion,
this toy is just not a good thing,

spell casting is not a game.

Like most things in life it is not evil in nature but how it is pesented and used makes it so..
and will only serve to fule the fear that already exsists for us as Witches. Our laws are " Harm non" we do not hurt peopel or preform sick twisted rites.. we do not even belive in satan at all..

Thank you for makeing this an open forum

Brightest Blessin's
Starstorm

I am rather torn on this doll....I love the show charmed but I also the difference b/w hollywood magic and real magic. When I first saw this commercial I to thought it was a joke...and it sounds fun I mean they have the sabrina dolls so why not babrbie but it is unsteady ground. I can understand concerns of turning it into a game but if you think about Dr. Barbie, being a doctor is a serious profession that needs respect but children play doctor all the time and have been told the difference. Just b/c you play doesn't mean you are it takes work and respect to be...I hope this doesn't turn into a constant mocking. Not the complete thought I had but like I said I'm rather torn.

Sorry, but I just had to say something. I am a Pagan, and I think the idea for having these Charm Girl dolls is quite cute. However, I have to agree, too, that the commercialism of Pagan traditions isn't a good thing either, though it could help foster "TOLERANCE", which is a thing quite lacking in most Christians.

I'm sorry, but you have to face up to the idea that your choice of religion isn't the same for everyone, and that, as I believe was stated above, the rest of the world's religions deserve every bit of recognition and representation as Christianity. Christians aren't the only ones with children, and it's nice to have something that, to a point, represents our faith.

And if it offends you, too bad. Deal with it.

Sorry for sounding irritated and possibly crass, but I'm really sick of religious bigots.

Executia

One last thing. Why is it that is has to be "really weird" little girls interested in magick and potions? Pagans are just as normal as you claim to be. They just believe different. I really am so irritated at this topic, I can't even come up with words to express how idiotic the originator and other people can be.

I think it is very sad for little girls to be encouraged to do spells and the glamorization of witchcraft for gain. I have friends who are Wiccans and I understand their religion very well as I have studied it deeply. I am also an ex-medium. Am I a religious bigot for not wanting children to get sucked into the glamour of witchcraft and not the creeds and maturity the witches I know believe in and possess. Fine call me a bigot, but I am a deliverance minister and I pray for and protect young women coming out of the occult. All I need now is to deal with ten yr olds who have formed a coven and evoked spirits that are harassing them. I already minister to preteens and teens that have called things up on their ouija board and get terrified and bothered by spirits and call me. I knew this Barbie was inevitable but I for one would like to a see a large scale of religious diversity because as a female preacher Im harassed and accused as much as my wiccan friends are. Alittle tolerance would be a lovely thing.

Executia,
However, I have to agree, too, that the commercialism of Pagan traditions isn't a good thing either, though it could help foster "TOLERANCE", which is a thing quite lacking in most Christians.

First I do not agree with the concept of "tolerance". We should not learn to "tolerate" each other, but love each other because all human being are created in the image and likeness of God. "Tolerance"(the notion that we can only barely put up with each other) is not a Catholic concept, love is. That said while we are to love other humans, it does not mean we have to agree with what everyone else is doing.Also, with your statement that "most Christians are not tolerant" sort of says to me you have some issues with prejudice yourself... There one billion Catholics in the world alone, let alone how many more other Christians. You cannot possibly know "most" of them.

I'm sorry, but you have to face up to the idea that your choice of religion isn't the same for everyone, and that, as I believe was stated above, the rest of the world's religions deserve every bit of recognition and representation as Christianity. Christians aren't the only ones with children, and it's nice to have something that, to a point, represents our faith.

And if it offends you, too bad. Deal with it.

I have no problem with anyone being any other religion, but the point with the doll is Catholic Barbies are not represented. As I have learned from the more charitable pagans who posted here, my use of the term "Wicca" for this doll was incorrect. But my second problem is the concept that little girls should acheive things through casting spells instead of honest work.

I actually have a great deal of pagan friends who I get along very well with (not Wiccan, but Khemtian). We do not agree on religion and the fact of the matter is both of us thinks their religion is the right one, and with that we disagree, and that will not change. If what you dislike is many Christians are not fence sitters about their beliefs-I am sorry.

Why is it that is has to be "really weird" little girls interested in magick and potions? You also flew off the handle without reading my post. I said:

I suppose there is not much of a difference except one would be modeled after an obvious fictional TV show, and the other implies that all little girls, except the really weird ones, are secretly wishing to play "let's make secret potions for love and money."

Pagans are just as normal as you claim to be. Did I claim to be normal?

this is my take on it. now that wicca has been brought in to the open its been a double edged sword. i mean people are being more tolerant of us which is nice, but then we also got people exploiting us because we are "in" lately.

personly i'm offended by the secret spells barbie. its more to cash in on the charmed band wagon rather then wicca and most wiccan girls are offened by it. we now use barbie wiccan as an insult on people that practice magic like its a new toy. we take our belifes seriously and i personaly wouldn't mind seeing that doll fade into obscuretity

Why? I asked why... I asked why would an earth based religion want* to be 'promoted' through something as shallow and ridiculous as a Barbie doll. The are a horrible representations of women to begin with, and a good way to give our daughers inferiority complexes.

But the 'why'? Hate to break it to you ladies there is a more sinister evil than religious tolerance at work here. Do you know what it's called? It's called a profit, a really large one, it's called capitalism, and most notably it's known as GREED.

They took an area of the market which has become quite popular (regardless of whether that popularity you find good or bad) and they decided they were going to make any money off of it that was possible.

They do it with Catholic's too. Know why designers sell those little plaid skirts - that look like in some fiction they could be a part of a school uniform? They sell them so girls can pander to the sexual fantasy's men (and some other women) have about 'little catholic school girls.' Have you ever asked WHY that's fashionable?

Again, in response to your question as to why??? It's about as much green stuff in the pocket as possible. Thank capitalism.

I am a witch, and am appaled at the people who think this Barbie thing is nothing more than an inncoent little doll. Do you think if they start dressing her up as the devil, girls are going to start worshiping him?? Or as cats?? Really! Real Witches and wiccans are totally differnt from what the media protrays them as! They do not worship the devil, and would certinalty not put curses on people! And guess what? I am part Chatlolic too!

No, I do not think Wicca Barbie will encourage a child to "dress up as the devil" etc. What I do not think is fair is the toy industry decides that one religion is preferable and "OK" over another. Again, no nun Barbie, no priest Ken dolls etc...

And guess what? I am part Chatlolic too!

OK, Susie, I am confused. Bieng Catholic is not like an ethnicity, like I am half Irish, half Puerto Rican, 1/4 Muslim, 5/8 Catholic. Being catholic is choice. I am not trying to be rude, but am confused by your statement.

Pansy Moss-
What I ment by that comment, "And guess what....." Is that I am a christain-witch, I belive in both, althrough christains do have a tendency to say that there religon is the only way.. wait! Dont get angry yet! Every reliogon seems to sometimes 'flaunt' their religon and ways. Even witches do sometimes. Where just human. But it goes to far when people start worring about dolls!! There just dolls!! And religon is probley just something someone made up one day, because he/she was bored. I think that everyone is right, and that every religon is the way to your 'god'.

I THINK U ALL NEED A LOT OF PRAYER! I am a Christian! Not part time, not sometimes and not just on Sundays. I really do not understand the person who says they can be a Christian-witch....Wow ...that is interesting that you can believe in Christianity who directly forbids having any other gods before Him, find some truth in the Bible and but want to follow another religion at the same time. How can you do that? Why did you choose to to listen to part of the Bible then at some point pick and choose what was true in it and what was not? Either you would think someone would believe that it's true or full of it but both hmm... interesting.
Tolerence is something we should all practice with eachother because you are told to love the person and not the sin. Weather it is practiced or not...well unfortunate not everyone practices what they preach but doesn't make the command any less realivant. The Word of God is perfect, not people and if the Word of God is saying something you don't like or disagree with i encourage you to think about this....If you are living like there is no God, u better be right or turn yourself in to Jesus because he tells us he is the way the truth and the life and that no one will go to the father accept through him...........gotta go later my sistas'

Your sister in Christ covered by the blood.. Yvette

Well!! Let me ask you this yvette. Are you sure that 'jesus' is really the person you think he is?? I mean (before you go crazy :)) I mean, think about it, even 2,000 years ago people where con artists, just like some people are today. I am saying that what if.. this whole religon thing was made up?? I mean, back then anyone could have come into town and said 'I am the son of god' and people would have belived him. The Jews could be right, our 'savior' could still be coming. Budist could be right, romans, there are many gods. Witches are right about thier god and goddess. I think that religon is a state of mind, not a real thing. True, it does not sound that way. I think that ALL religons are right, and what I mean is whatever you belive in, that will be true for you. For example, you belive in reincarnation, so you get reincarnated. You belive in god and heaven and hell, so if your good you go to heaven, bad you go to hell, etc. Nobodys right, noone is wrong. I think you might disagree, that again your religon is the only way to 'god' but if you take a moment and think about, how did we get all these religons in the first place? Yes, people made some up, but you cant get so many from just human imagination. People might have had just sudden enlightment and understud what had to be done. And also yvette, knowing you, you probley do no belive in magic. But did you know that there is solid proof that moses used magic to spread the waters of the great sea to free the slaves?? Or that jesus used magic to heal blind men, walk on water, and turn water into wine? If he lived and walked this earth today, people would have considerd him a witch!!

*claps* go susie! *has nothing more useful to say then that*

Thanks bea! Anyone Else agree? If you want to e-mail me with some more stuff, my e-mail is now up and running. Please put Wicca Barbie at the top so I don't accidently delete you!! Thanks!

Susie,

first, thanks for stopping by. I'd like to respond to your post in more depth, but I simply don't have the time, hence the brevity.

Are you sure that 'jesus' is really the person you think he is??

Show a little tolerance and respect, please; that's Jesus with a capital J. It's His Name. Of course Christians are sure that Jesus is Who He says He is. That's why we're Christians. And yes, most -- I daresay all -- Christians have have given this question serious thought.

....people where con artists, just like some people are today. I am saying that what if.. this whole religon thing was made up?? I mean, back then anyone could have come into town and said 'I am the son of god' and people would have belived him.

Nowadays when people come around claiming to be the Messiah, most people roll their eyes and say "yeah, right." Do you think the ancients were that much more gullible? There were plenty of people in those times -- and in times after -- who thought Jesus was a liar or a fake.

If Jesus was a con artist, then Christians are wasting their time. That includes Christians like the ones who founded hospitals and universities, people like St Francis of Assisi, St Teresa of Avila, Dorothy Day.

In order to accept that He was a con artist, though, you must also explain away the testimony of the eyewitnesses who witnessed His miracles and who witnessed him risen from the dead. You must also explain the dramatic behavior of the first Christians and the swift spread of the early Church.

The Jews could be right, our 'savior' could still be coming. Budist could be right, romans, there are many gods. Witches are right about thier god and goddess. I think that religon is a state of mind, not a real thing.

If religion is not a real thing, then Wiccans, Christians, and everybody else are just wasting their time. If one religion is true, it means that inherently some of the other claims of other religions must be false.

For example, I can say, "I went shopping at the mall yesterday." Somebody else can say, "The mall was closed yesterday." I can be part right -- perhaps I just drove up to the parking lot -- but both of us can't be all the way right."

The whole point of religion, particularly Christianity, is to seek to better understand the objective reality of God. (Of course, we will never completely understand God because He is infinite. But we can learn more about Him.)

True, it does not sound that way. I think that ALL religons are right, and what I mean is whatever you belive in, that will be true for you. For example, you belive in reincarnation, so you get reincarnated. You belive in god and heaven and hell, so if your good you go to heaven, bad you go to hell, etc. Nobodys right, noone is wrong.

If this statement is true, then Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism are all false. None of them have escape clauses. You either die and are judged (Christianity/ Islam) or you are reincarnated (Hinduism) unless you have attained Nirvana (Buddhism.)

I think you might disagree, that again your religon is the only way to 'god' but if you take a moment and think about, how did we get all these religons in the first place? Yes, people made some up, but you cant get so many from just human imagination. People might have had just sudden enlightment and understud what had to be done.

The Christian understanding accounts for other religions, including the parts they do get right, with the understanding of the conscience and of natural law, of the inspiration of God. (It also does not rule out the possiblity of the influence of less beneficient supernatural beings.)

that there is solid proof that moses used magic to spread the waters of the great sea to free the slaves??

You have got to be kidding me. Solid proof? There are still people who are demanding solid proof that Moses existed at all, by the way. Jews and Christians will not dispute that Moses parted the waters in a miraculous way, but we believe it was by the power granted him by God for this purpose, not by power over unseen forces gained by study and practice.

And if your statement -- Moses used magic -- is true, then the belief of Christians and Jews -- that Moses did this by the power of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Who forbids the use of magic -- is false.

If he lived and walked this earth today, people would have considerd him a witch!!

Actually, some people of his day his day did consider Him a witch. That was part of why they arranged for His arrest, torture, and crucifixion.

Suzie, you can't be "part Catholic" and still be a Wiccan. The two belief systems are incompatible. If you believe that Wicca is true, then be a Wiccan, but leave Christianity out of it.

I would also suggest reading "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis to start getting a good understanding of why Christians believe what they do.

Your Blogmistress,

I started out where Miss Q is now. Religion is a state of mind. Whatever you think, that's the way it's going to be: "you belive in reincarnation, so you get reincarnated." How pleasant. Well, what isn't a state of mind? Sometimes I think I see things that turn out not to be there. When I am sleeping I have all kinds of adventures that disappear when I awake. So I drew the logical conclusion: all reality is purely subjective. I kept expecting everything to disappear suddenly; and I wished it would, because I was miserable. In the end, I might have tried to see what happened if I sought to put an end to the nightmare by my own effort. If I had not had what was, I believe, a direct intuition of God, that's probably what would have happened.

That is what started me looking for the truth; the last place I expected to find it was in Christianity, but I did. But I knew there had to be a real truth, something that was true regardless of what anybody thought or anybody felt, because if there isn't, then nothing can be relied on. From that perspective, I can say that every religion, even paganism (which I tried with little success to practice as a teenager) has some inkling of the truth, because God has not abandoned His creation to total darkness.

When I was becoming a Christian, the last intellectual obstacle was one which, I think, is behind much of Miss Q's indignation: the scandal of particularity. Why should the revelation of God have taken place at that particular place, at that particular time? Why should Palestine in the reign of Tiberius Caesar be so privileged? Consider the logical alternative: How could God enter into human history without doing so at a particular place? If you object to the whole idea of a historically revealed religion, consider: If the ultimate truth were something that we could come up with out of our own thoughts, how could anyone put any more faith in it than in any other subjective impression? Who would want to worship a God of his own making? But revelation requires particularity. A truth that can truly be relied on requires revelation.

Ultimate truth is something that has been revealed through a series of events which, being historical, were limited in space and time. There is a sort of general revelation in nature and especially in the exercise of human reason, but, good though it is, it is inadequate to lift humanity beyond the range of subjective speculation, any more than you could lift yourself up by your own hair.

So, Miss Q, if you want to live like a human being, rather than an animal, you have to think. If everything is subjective, then one of us may well not even exist. You're just a character in my dream, or possibly I am in yours. In that case, who cares? Don't bother to comment on anything, because it isn't real anyway. But if there is a truth, then believe it. Ultimately you have to take responsibility for your choice. Decide this day whom you will serve; as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. I will pray that He gives you the grace to understand, and more, to believe.

Susie,

First I would like to clarify the terms magic and magick. There is a reason for this.

Magic - the practice of stage magic and illusion i.e. David Copperfield, Harry Houdini, and Penn and Teller types magic.

Magick - The using of powers and energies (forces, spirits, angels, both fallen and unfallen) by means of rituals incorporating incantations, symbols, and the force of will by the performer.

Now, you claim that there is solid proof that Moses used Magick (actually you said magic, and that would mean that he pulled a David Copperfield trick of illusion) to free the slaves. Actually if you read the account, God tells Moses what to do and when to do it. Moses is not casting anything, he isn’t using personal energies, he is not harnessing forces to do his bidding, and actually up until the actual event he is pretty much clueless to what is going to happen. If you read the account you will notice that he is not acting as he is taking a major part of the action, usually telling the Lord that the children of Israel are “Complaining” and then going out and doing what the Lord has told him to do.

If you read the whole of Exodus you will notice that this is the formula whenever any divine intervention happens:

Example: The rock and the water

COI (Children of Israel) "Moses!!! we are dying of thirst, why did you bring us out of Egypt to die here"

Moses: God... these people are driving me nuts

God: I will take care of it... bang your stick on the rock over there once and see what I will do

Moses: Ok

Moses: COI! The Lord God is going to take care of you

Moses: Bangs Rock with staff

Rock: Springs out water

COI: "Yeah!!!! God is great!!!!"

Moses: "Sigh! Thanks God!"

This runs pretty much contrary to the usage of magick where the caster has to have a clue to what they are trying to accomplish and how they are going to accomplish it before they even start casting and working the ritual.

did anyone else notice wiccan barbie is not even in the discusion anymore? well, anyway, i am wiccan and would just like to say, religion is who you are, and who you are can be anything you want it to be. i believe that any faith could be perfectly valid as the next. We believe that the goddess and the god are just more comprehensible forms of the universe, so the christian god could just be another interpretation of the universe or fate, or whatever you wish to call it. go ahead and dis on me if you want, i'm ok with your thoughts on my veiws.

Thanks to all who came by and left comments, especially our Wiccan guests. Stop by anytime!

A couple of things:

Commenter PP, please check your email.

bruja, I have no issue at all with your (or any other Wiccan's) saying, "You know, I really think Wicca is the best way to understand God, and Catholics and other Christians are misled" (or "don't have all the information," or "are right in some things but are all wet on other things" or whatever.) If that's what you think, that's what you think, and stating your beliefs clearly -- including your disagreement with other beliefs -- is not dissing anyone or being intolerant. And it can be a starting point to a good, edifying discussion.

But trying to tell us that "I think this is right, but even though you hold beliefs that are in direct opposition to mine and in fact condemn mine, your beliefs are true also" -- that's not going to get anyone anywhere. It doesn't help us understand your beliefs or why you hold them, and it seriously trivializes mine.

Christianity teaches that Wicca is false. There are elements to Wicca that Christians would have no problem with -- for example, the idea that it's ethical to not hurt other people -- but Christianity teaches that the basic premises of Wicca are false.

So if you say, "Wicca is true, and Christianity is also true," how can that be? It doesn't make any sense -- it's a self-contradictory statement. If Wicca is true, Christianity can't be true, because Christianity teaches that Wicca is false. If Christianity is true, then Wicca can't be true, because Christianity teaches that Wicca is false.

Saying "yes, this is true, but that's true too" makes the very serious choice between religions and world views as subjective (and ultimately trivial) as the choice between Coke and Pepsi, a blue car or a red car. It reduces philosophy and religion to nothing more than a consumer choice.

That doesn't mean we can't live in peace, whether in real life or on the Internet. And it doesn't even mean that we can't agree on some things. Christians don't like Secret Spells Barbie because it presents casting spells as something fun, easy, and trendy, and we believe that casting spells is not spiritually healthy. Some of our Wiccan commenters don't like Secret Spells Barbie because it presents casting spells as something fun and easy, without any ethical considerations, and trendy -- Wicca not as a serious religous and philosophical choice, but as a mere consumer choice with cute Goth-lite clothes and nice-smelling candles. It reduces Wicca to a fashion statement.

* * * * * * * *

I will be closing this thread to further comments, simply because I don't have the time to moderate it (and, as bruja correctly noted, Miss Secret Spells Barbie is not even in the discussion anymore!) If you have something on your mind and you've JUST GOT to share it with us, please drop us an email (the address is on the main page, at the top of the left sidebar.)

Once again, thanks so much for coming by.

Your blogmistress,
Peony Moss