Define Latin

My favorite Dan Quayle quote:
On being told he was to visit Latin America, the vice-president said, "Boy, I' wish I'd studied Latin."

I have been using Latin to describe Italians for many years. After all, we invented the language.

Erik, it is your use of the term that made me wonder why you and my Dad are the only two people I know who refer to Italians as Latins.

Pansy,

It was not always so. Marcello Mastrioni (that is not spelled right, I don't think) always chafed at being typecast as "the Latin lover." Of course I slightly object to being lumped with those uncouth Southerners who overthrew our king and then dominated us for so long, but since we have been speaking their language for centuries, to the point that no one remembers our own language, I guess we must be called Latins as well. Too bad. Imagine if Tarquin had been victorious, and we would all be talking about Etruscan America.

Etruscans had cooler hats, too.

I just came across this thread and wanted to throw my two cents in. I agree whole-heartedly that Italians are Latins and it's really short sighted that Americans don't recognize us as such. Afterall, the Italians people were the very first Latins -- as they were a combination of the Etruscans to the North of Italy, Greeks to the South, and obviously Latins in central region. As a child growing up in America, my parents and grandparents (who all grew up overseas) commented a great deal on how the perception of being Latin in America was only applied to those of Hispanic decent, and not to Italians (arguably those who are closest to the original Latin people of Rome). My grandfather always told me this was an oversight in America (and not in Europe) and that I should take pride in a heritage that reaches back over 2,000 years to the time of the Roman Empire itself. The remnants of that Empire is most definitely part of the modern Italian identity. In any event, I agree with your sentiments and just wanted to join my opinions with yous.

Why one Earth would America give the Latin label to nations in Central and South America who have nothing to do with Latin or Roman history. SO they speak spanish which is further away from latin than Italian and they get our Roman title. As an Italian American I am shocked that the latin image was stolen from the Italian people just to percieve us as to be more Anglo. Italians are more latin than any latino out there!

Hello, I'm European, from France...

I'm intested with the topic of the meaning of "latin" in your country since I was chatting on internet with an american-cuban. she asked me if I liked latin culture, I told her "of course, I'm myself a latin" ! She didnt' understand what I was saying, she told me "you cannot be latin, you are european !"

I understood later that the way the word "latin/latino" is used in your country is completly unapropriate meaning.
To describe a race of mixed-blooded people living in central and south america, and who speak spanish...

This meaning is dump !!
"latin/latino", in Europe has always been used to refer to the cultures and peoples of south-west Europe, those who derives their languages from latin and cultures from roman empire : that is to say ITALY, FRANCE, SPAIN, PORTUGAL and ROMANIA !! And later to some of the former colonies of those countries in America. "latin america" have been named this way to describe the parts of america with a cultural influence of the those latin countries. Some of latin american countries are spanish-speaking, but others are portuguese (200 million people in brazil) and also french. All of them are latin-americans, but only a little part of the population with european origins are latins. (argentina or urugay are almost 80% "genitically" latins, but guatemala is only 5% latin. The others are mixed, "latinized" indians, or non-"latinized" indians...

Us, in France consider ourselves as latins and have been considered as it by the other european countries since thousands of years, like the spanish, italians or portuguese. Each one of those countries have its own history and language and culture but share a commun cultural herency about what we are proud. Espacially for the language (i think latin languages are the most beautiful...)

The "new" meaning of "latin" that some dump and ignorant americans have been inventing to describe a "central/south american race" (that even doen't exist) is quikly spreeding all over the world because of the internet... Us, in europe we are shooked with that steal of identity. We are even more shoked to see that for most americans this term is depreciative...

I hope you'll work to learn the real meaning of the words to to your ignorant compatriots and medias...

Dear Fabien -- In reponse to your message, I have to say I agree 100%. Though I posted this earlier on this thread, I am an Italo-American individual who feels very strongly about this "theft of identity" as you put it. My parents are both from overseas, they lived and experienced their Italian-Latin roots first hand. Though I was born and raised in America, my family never let me forget that my Latin roots can be traced back over 2,000 years to a civilization that arguably became the bedrock of Western society. My grandfather (who experienced some anti-Italian sentiments and racism when he came here to work before sending for my family) would always point out that the "Latins did this" or that "the Italians invented that". So I never forgot my roots or to take pride in them. Just as you have voiced your opinion about this "identity theft" I'm sure a number of people who have added their thoughts to this thread would agree with you. But out of curiosity, does the rest of Europe share your views? And has there ever been (or will there soon emerge) a backlash to this "identity theft"? It is very good to hear that our Latin "bretheren" across the pond feel as we do. As a closing though, not all of us Americans are "dump and ignorant", and some of us can see the truth despite the Political Correctness of American Politics or the pushing of Hispanic groups from various South American countries vying to be seen as unified "Latin" people. Its all semantics and a magic show -- but not all of us buy into it.

Hi Nicola

Excuse me, I didn't want to say that americans are ignorant, but just the ones who make and diffuse this mistake.
In Europe we don't use very often the term "latin", because most of the people name themself fistly with they nationality, and secondly as Europeans. But when speaking about cultural identity, everyone knows that "latin" refers to south-west european countries. But I'm french, so I don't know really how the European of germanic languages say that. I don't know for england. If think that in this country, whith the american influence, would use the american meaning than the european one.
In don't know in German or Dutch or in scandinavian.
But I know that the Italians say "paesi latini", the french say "pays latins", the spanish "paises latinos" to describe those south-west europeans countries and the people of them.

But that also true that, with the influence of internet or medias (music, american movies, etc..) we begin to hear the word "latin" to describe the tropical culture of spanish speaking america... And some people is confused about the meaning of this term.
Especially in France, because we are a latin country but much different from Italy or Spain because we are more in the north, and have in our history a lot of contacts with Germany or England, especially in the north of the country.

For us, as for most of the europeans, "latin" refers to the mediterranean countries of europe. so, in Paris the people generally doesn't feel so much "mediteraneans" than the southerner french (because of distance, cooler and more wet climate) In north of France the people has not really a "mediteranean physical type", so a lot of people don't feel so "latin". But culturally we feel close to the Italians and Spanish people (same kind of language, same religion, same roman background, etc...)
In France if you asked "what people is more latin ?" most of people would answer "the Italians". It is our historical reference of what latin is, we know that most of our french culture has roman origins.

Most of the time, when speaking about the latin countries we also include the latin-american countries because they speak latin languages. The quebecers sometime describes themselves as "the latins of the north" (Quebec is not conisdered as latin-american, but etimologicaly it should be. Quebec is even more latin than most of the so called latin-american countries)

This is my mind. If you have more questions...

One information for the ones who are intersted about it : there is an international organisation about the latin countries :

union latine : www.unilat.org

I have just a question for the "italian-americans" : Do you speak Italian as your first language ? As a second ? Or not at all.

In Europe we generally consider that our "latinity" is defined fistly by speaking a latin language. This is the reason why the french people is so attached with its language, because for us the french language is much more than a simple way of communication but it is a question of identity. What makes us latins is our language, because genetically "latin" doesn't mean a lot (even in Italy), in France we are a very mixed country of all kinds of people of Europe, and also from other continents.
Do italian-american feel the same with Italian language ?

I believe that not every Americans falls to the level of a "Latino"...the other day a Mexican friend of mine explained how Latin actually came from the word "Latino" defined as of Hispanic heretage. I'm still laughing my ass off! It is the Cubans that understand Italians, French, etc are Latins also. Argentina is home to a VERY large Italian population. Technically saying Latin America is South America is correct, but Americans only recognize Hispanics for the only reason it is called "Latin America". My entire name is Latin and my family fought hard to keep it when they entered America. They may have been stoaways but they all came for a better life. My last name is Sicilian and that last name has its own ancient burial grounds: Intagliata and the grounds are also shared with the Intaglitalia family also. NO, I don't speak Italian but the rest of my family does!